Take back the keys!

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:46 am

i say fuck the gears and get the cam installed. with the stall you really wont need them as much.

by **CruxSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:01 am

Droptop Z wrote:
CruxSucks wrote:so noah told you about the nitrous huh? haha its not like its a big secret or anything. i started and almost finished installing it today. all i need are a few final pieces and it will be done. im hoping to be done either tomorrow or the next day and get a few test pulls done on the street later this week. im planning to be at the track next friday on oct 9th. hoping for some GOOD numbers, we shall see though...

what have you got planned for the winter andy?

Depends on how it goes, but at very least a 3200 stall and 3.73 gears. Also getting some 555R drag radials, and a Texas Speed MS3 cam, but I probably won't be getting the cam installed until June when I can cover the $1000 install and tune. Planning on running cam only. The average time cam only is around 11.2-11.3, so I figure I'll be somewhere around there. Originally I was being all super secret with it because I was going with a custom grind 218/232 118 LSA stock idle cam, but if I went that route yearly spring changes were a must and the guy wasn't sure how deep into 11's I'd be, so I'm going with the cam that plenty of people have gotten great numbers with.

Looking forward to seeing the vids after the nitrous. Do you have a cage in your car, or are you expecting to just make just 1 pass? Good luck with your runs though!

yeah i have a cage, so im all good there no gettin booted. im not gonna start off with a huge shot, im not trying to crack this block in half.

so youre not going to do any of the work yourself? you could always install the cam yourself and just tow it and pay to have it tuned. just an idea to save some money if youre being charged a ton for labor. hopefully you dont get sick of that stall for daily driving.

so youre saying an ls1 with a lid, exhaust, 3.73s, 3200 stall, and cam will run 11.2-11.3? at what mph? i cant begin to explain how hard to believe i find that.

by **CruxSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:13 am

6spdscreaminchickin wrote:i say fuck the gears and get the cam installed. with the stall you really wont need them as much.

stall converter, gears, and cam should all be matched components working together.

by **Droptop Z** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:25 am

CruxSucks wrote:
Droptop Z wrote:
CruxSucks wrote:so noah told you about the nitrous huh? haha its not like its a big secret or anything. i started and almost finished installing it today. all i need are a few final pieces and it will be done. im hoping to be done either tomorrow or the next day and get a few test pulls done on the street later this week. im planning to be at the track next friday on oct 9th. hoping for some GOOD numbers, we shall see though...

what have you got planned for the winter andy?

Depends on how it goes, but at very least a 3200 stall and 3.73 gears. Also getting some 555R drag radials, and a Texas Speed MS3 cam, but I probably won't be getting the cam installed until June when I can cover the $1000 install and tune. Planning on running cam only. The average time cam only is around 11.2-11.3, so I figure I'll be somewhere around there. Originally I was being all super secret with it because I was going with a custom grind 218/232 118 LSA stock idle cam, but if I went that route yearly spring changes were a must and the guy wasn't sure how deep into 11's I'd be, so I'm going with the cam that plenty of people have gotten great numbers with.

Looking forward to seeing the vids after the nitrous. Do you have a cage in your car, or are you expecting to just make just 1 pass? Good luck with your runs though!

yeah i have a cage, so im all good there no gettin booted. im not gonna start off with a huge shot, im not trying to crack this block in half.

so youre not going to do any of the work yourself? you could always install the cam yourself and just tow it and pay to have it tuned. just an idea to save some money if youre being charged a ton for labor. hopefully you dont get sick of that stall for daily driving.

so youre saying an ls1 with a lid, exhaust, 3.73s, 3200 stall, and cam will run 11.2-11.3? at what mph? i cant begin to explain how hard to believe i find that.

Believe! Thunder Racing got their T-Rex cam to put out 451 RWHP, cam only. It's the current cam only record holder at 10.4 @ 130.9 MPH, and thats in a stick shift car. Texas Speed got the cam I'm getting to run a best of 10.5, don't remember MPH, but both of them were done on a completely stock bottom end and 100% stock cylinder heads. Only difference for my car will be I'm running stock suspension (actually I probably wont get low 11s yet because of that). It's actually normal for even the small 224/224 cams to be running mid-high 11's, and the MS3 is 237/242.

I plan to install the converter myself, but the gears and cam I'm going to leave to the pros, from what I've heard it's way too easy to fuck up. I have to get my speedometer recalibrated anyways for the new gears, so it's not a big deal. Plus for the cam swap I needed to buy a bunch of different shit like special tools that hold the lifters and overall it was going to be around $300 for the tools or $400 to just get it done by a shop, and I'm going to have to pay $500 for the dyno tune anyways.

by **CruxSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:40 am

ohhh i see whats goin on here. youre confusing "cam only" with only having a cam. cam only is a term kinda like "all motor" (no power adder). it just means that the heads and bottom end are stock. if you just straight add a cam (even with stall and gears) to your current combo thats not going to put you at low 11's. not even close. those cars turning those numbers have TONS of supporting mods.

it does sound like a good plan though, that cam with the gears and stall on some drag radials would be a really nice combo. cant wait to see what kinda numbers you put down.

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:11 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVcpGnf-dUQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaIVciWKFzw
i would say 11.7ish give or take a tenth. i know thoes vids prove nothing cause "cam only" means no other mods to the engine not the whole car. but still thought i'd throw em in their cause cars with what andy's set up is going to be have ran that. take into consideration that andy's is a 2002. lots of diffrences from the 98-00 ls1

someone lend this kid some tools. andy. im sure the school would have no problem with us bringing the heads out their to put the springs in. and wile we're their we could borrow a pully pulling tool (whatever its called) and not to sound like a noob but what lifter holding tool are you talking about? what does it do? hold the lifters when you pull the cam? why not just take em out? idk flame my noob ass on that one cause im :?:

.

and bill i know i'm saying to have the cam installed before you buy/put in gears. bigger gain to go with the stall. like cam/stall>stall/gears.

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:14 am

well now i just look stupid cause bill got his post in before me.......

by **CruxSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:23 am

heres the closest thing i could find to a car with only an ms3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__JmdZxXtE

those numbers do not equate to low 11's in a heavy ls1 camaro (plus convertible weight).

granted thats just one car with a mail tune but still...

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:04 am

6spdscreaminchickin wrote: take into consideration that andy's is a 2002. lots of diffrences from the 98-00 ls1.

if you want to read up on the ls1 f-body here is a good place to start. most of the diffrences are listed. not all.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/1740880-post2.html

and low miles. the vert doesnt weigh much more then the coupe. 53lbs according to vehix.
http://www.vehix.com/used-cars/used-car ... 02/camaro/
and he took out the spare/jack so thats what...20-25lbs? so he's 30 some lbs heavier? :roll:

i've taken 30 lb shits :lol:

lets bring the back the porta potty by the staging lanes idea!!!!(anyone remember that?) :lol:

he's actually lighter then a heavier driver in a coupe.

by **RSbeast** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:12 am

It seems to be all over the board really with these cars. Being an 02, the real main benefits are the LS6 intake manifold and the no egr (which you can do to any). The heads are different but extremely marginal. The cam and injectors are actually smaller. The stock manifolds are better, but nothing to write home about. Some cars got an LS6 block casting but it's pretty rare. O2 aslo suffered from oil consumption issues.

Pretty much the only thing it has going for it is the intake, and if you are going to run an MS3/MS4 cam it's only going to marginally keep up. You will likely need to go to fast 90/90 to see the high end spectrum #s.

Do not be mistaken as the MS3 IS a fairly aggressive n/a street cam, and bigger than alot of competitive cams in that range. Don't even think about trying to get away with stock valvesprings and I'd go to a crane gold rocker. Without the gears matched to the converter on that cam, you are going to have some decent drivability issues. I also hope you are going to step up to longtubes. As you would expect, the injectors are already going bye bye and a t/b would help alot.

As Bill said; what you are describing as a goal is for full bolton cars, and def not stock suspension cars. You should be looking into relocating the LCA'a and a good tq arm setup, then hope for the best out of that 10bolt as you will NEED those tires coming off a supported converter.

Most cars using that cam seem to fall into the 380rwhp - 430rwhp range depending on the dyno, the transmission choice, and the supporting mods. I'd shoot for a rough average of 114-116mph fully supported. The 10sec cars are FAR from the norm at stock race weight. By the time you add fluids and a driver, most fbodies check in around 3600-3700. Don't forget to skimp on the chassis upgrades as you DO have a vert along with most likely needing a cage (extra weight).

There is no real way around just 'tossing a cam' at one of these cars and really running a #. It's just like any other one of these projects; it will snowball hard and costs some serious $ to do right. It is nice to have the cubes to work with and great flowing heads, but it is far from easy or cheap. Ask Gary who ran mid/low 11s with a heads cam 383 LS1. Not everyone gets internet results, esp at our local track...which at that point you will have a MUCH different view of lol.

I actually like the hunchback pic btw; but mine got more lolz

It's all in good fun man 8-)

by **CruxSucks** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:18 pm

i found that the vert weighs 200 lbs more than the coupe.

by **Droptop Z** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:38 pm

6spdscreaminchickin wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVcpGnf-dUQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaIVciWKFzw
i would say 11.7ish give or take a tenth. i know thoes vids prove nothing cause "cam only" means no other mods to the engine not the whole car. but still thought i'd throw em in their cause cars with what andy's set up is going to be have ran that. take into consideration that andy's is a 2002. lots of diffrences from the 98-00 ls1

someone lend this kid some tools. andy. im sure the school would have no problem with us bringing the heads out their to put the springs in. and wile we're their we could borrow a pully pulling tool (whatever its called) and not to sound like a noob but what lifter holding tool are you talking about? what does it do? hold the lifters when you pull the cam? why not just take em out? idk flame my noob ass on that one cause im .

and bill i know i'm saying to have the cam installed before you buy/put in gears. bigger gain to go with the stall. like cam/stall>stall/gears.

The lifter holding tool.. holds the lifters. When the cam is out, it's possible that they'll drop down, meaning you have to pull the heads to get them off, and I'm not pulling the heads. Plenty of people have done it without those tools, but plenty have done it and been fucked over by it. You can't run the MS3 on 2.73 gears.

CruxSucks wrote:ohhh i see whats goin on here. youre confusing "cam only" with only having a cam. cam only is a term kinda like "all motor" (no power adder). it just means that the heads and bottom end are stock. if you just straight add a cam (even with stall and gears) to your current combo thats not going to put you at low 11's. not even close. those cars turning those numbers have TONS of supporting mods.

it does sound like a good plan though, that cam with the gears and stall on some drag radials would be a really nice combo. cant wait to see what kinda numbers you put down.

http://www.thunderracing.com/customersc ... 36&x=8&y=8 << Thats the list of all that was done to the car to run 10.4's. Of course that's a lot more than I'll have and that car isn't a street car, but still I'm fairly confident I'll hit 11.7 next summer, maybe get low 11's in the fall if I get the suspension stuff too.

RSbeast wrote:It seems to be all over the board really with these cars. Being an 02, the real main benefits are the LS6 intake manifold and the no egr (which you can do to any). The heads are different but extremely marginal. The cam and injectors are actually smaller. The stock manifolds are better, but nothing to write home about. Some cars got an LS6 block casting but it's pretty rare. O2 aslo suffered from oil consumption issues.

Pretty much the only thing it has going for it is the intake, and if you are going to run an MS3/MS4 cam it's only going to marginally keep up. You will likely need to go to fast 90/90 to see the high end spectrum #s.

Do not be mistaken as the MS3 IS a fairly aggressive n/a street cam, and bigger than alot of competitive cams in that range. Don't even think about trying to get away with stock valvesprings and I'd go to a crane gold rocker. Without the gears matched to the converter on that cam, you are going to have some decent drivability issues. I also hope you are going to step up to longtubes. As you would expect, the injectors are already going bye bye and a t/b would help alot.

As Bill said; what you are describing as a goal is for full bolton cars, and def not stock suspension cars. You should be looking into relocating the LCA'a and a good tq arm setup, then hope for the best out of that 10bolt as you will NEED those tires coming off a supported converter.

Most cars using that cam seem to fall into the 380rwhp - 430rwhp range depending on the dyno, the transmission choice, and the supporting mods. I'd shoot for a rough average of 114-116mph fully supported. The 10sec cars are FAR from the norm at stock race weight. By the time you add fluids and a driver, most fbodies check in around 3600-3700. Don't forget to skimp on the chassis upgrades as you DO have a vert along with most likely needing a cage (extra weight).

There is no real way around just 'tossing a cam' at one of these cars and really running a #. It's just like any other one of these projects; it will snowball hard and costs some serious $ to do right. It is nice to have the cubes to work with and great flowing heads, but it is far from easy or cheap. Ask Gary who ran mid/low 11s with a heads cam 383 LS1. Not everyone gets internet results, esp at our local track...which at that point you will have a MUCH different view of lol.

I actually like the hunchback pic btw; but mine got more lolz It's all in good fun man

LOL, glad you liked it! For sure, all in fun :lol:

Yeah the 241 heads are a bit better than the older 243s, same with the LS6 > LS1 intake, but they stuffed the truck cam in there so it wasn't competing with the vette. I thought my car has EGR though? I'm pretty sure it does, I'll have to check though. IIRC my car has the LS6 block (50% of 02's had it), but there's nothing that great about it. Little bit lighter and some fancy bay to bay breathing or something, but besides that everything is the same.

I know about the intake, but I'm going to hold off on that for a little bit though. Mostly because in a stock h/c car you see about 10-20 WHP gains, and it costs over $1100 with the proper fuel lines and injectors.

HAHA would I even consider running stock springs on the MS3, IIRC the stock springs are rated at .500 lift or .525. Going with a set of PAC springs rated to .650, also getting all new seats/retainers/etc. I already spoke to TSP about what gears they recommend, 3.73 in auto's or 4.10's in a manual are a MUST. Same with at least a 3200 stall. I already have longtubes on the car, the injectors and TB are getting upgraded, also adding an ported LS6 oil pump and an LS2 timing chain. After that, going to add a 6pt roll bar and get the suspension upgraded.. that's a long way away though

by **sohchottie** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:27 pm

Droptop Z wrote:
sohchottie wrote:
4) Go ahead about how my car isn't as fast as your built drag cars. One day you'll realize it's not always about drag racing, theres a lot more to cars than that.. One day.

What does your DD run or have you never been to the track? And your right... it isn't all about drag racing....

Best of 13.66, I was really babying it off the line though. That was the only run my car didn't light em going into second, something I can't even do on the street

I'll be running a lot faster in the Spring if business picks up this winter, it's been a slow year though.

13.66 hmmmmm... well whatever tickles your pickle. There must be alot more to life then drag racing if your DD run's 13's! =D

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:02 am

i'm sure he would be more than willing to race your bucktoothed boyfriends pos. one condition. you have to drive it up here. :lol:

no trailer. :lol:

.......dont think it would make it....... :lol:

by **CruxSucks** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:18 am

damn brett doesnt your neck ever get sore??

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:32 am

by **CruxSucks** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:47 am

from swinging on andy's nuts!!! :lol:

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:18 am

didnt say anything about his car being better (although it is) or faster. was just a way to start the post cause she was talking about his car. pretty much just making fun of her honkey ass. thats all. shes some dumb bitch from NC on our local fourm....to talk shit to teenagers with near stock cars...... no life much? and bragging about her boyfriends track only pos that he dumped over 100k into and only runs 9's? :lol:

anyway. i'll change the post for the shit talking mustang driver.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvx3A3r3hCU god i love that vid. took the words right out of my mouth.

but sure....if you say so..... im nutswinging. :roll:

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:21 am

6spdscreaminchickin wrote:i will be more than willing to race your bucktoothed boyfriends pos. one condition. you have to drive it up here. no trailer. .......dont think it would make it.......

by **CruxSucks** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:39 am

6spdscreaminchickin wrote:i'm sure he would be more than willing to race your bucktoothed boyfriends pos.

next time fix your original post when you change your quote.

NUT SWIIIIING!!!!!!!

its actually funny that you are trying to act like you DONT nutswing on andy... :lol:

by **6spdscreaminchickin** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:00 am

yeah i changed it. i even put what i changed in big and bold so you would see it. i even said i was going to change it in the post right before i did it. then your going to call me out on changing it????? ok?

and i dont nutswing on andy..... now andy's car on the other hand...... fuck yeah i do! i nutswing for his car EERRRR DAY BABY! but in this instance i wasnt.

Take back the keys!

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