Take back the keys!

As requested by Cory.

This is pretty long, there will be no cliffs. I was pretty heavy into DSMs at the time....still kinda am, but nothing too crazy.

My love for DSMs started at 16 when my n/t beat walking. It has grown from an attraction, to a fetish to a love. My story has its ups and downs. But I swear to the DSM Gods, there WILL be a happy ending.

Prepare for a long read....grab some popcorn.

This is one of my last posts before selling my beloved Laser, a car that I won't give up on ever again. It's a bit long, but its good... it will lead into the next series of dialouge.

Enjoy! :tree:

As my liking for my laser deteriorated, I responded to a slew of comments with utter disgust:

Originally Posted by RSbeast
I don't understand why you guys think the FMIC is going to or does scrape. The car is decieving because of the short ass bumper....it is mounted exactly as it is supposed to be. A talon or eclipse bumper hangs substantially lower than a laser's.

I'm glad people like it....cause it's going up for sale or some of the serious stuff will come off and get sold and the car separate in a closer to stock condition.

imports are gay. Im sick of catching shit driving this car. I hate people pokin fun cause it's a laser. I sick of getting cut off and flipped off cause i have a can on the back. And I'm f*cking sick of living in northeast ohio, stuck inbetween jobs thanks to a stupid company. I need to pay off school and relocate with my new job. I got shit else in life, I might aswell get a car i really enjoy. Gains to $ ratio....get real and get a v8. End of story.

I maintain the living hell out of this car. It's super pampered, I've gone over and replaced everything. NOTHING is done in anything less than a proffessional matter...I hate hack jobs..It's a very attractive car, and with a good tune, can be very quick. But I have invested over 10k in this thing, and I want out. I wish I would have built something with more cubes and looks cooler. I'm 22 and out of college, I dont need to spend my youth messin around with kiddie toy 4cyl. Shit, I spent $1500 on a tranny JUST cause stock ones like to destroy themselves.....that's more than i sold my FWD turbo laser for that i took a bath on :rollseyes:

Go big or go home....I'm goin home


NOW THE DSM HERITAGE STORY

A response to positive comments on the above post...

I'm dissapointed in myself for getting to this point aswell, but it has been a long road. I've been 'DSMing' for almost 7 years now, starting my jr. summer in highschool. That was when I had my 2.0 n/t 5spd, and thought all the world of it...and WISHED for fabled boost and DREAMED about awd. Prior to this, i hated imports with a passion. I grew up around musclecars...I am still very much infatuated by them.

When I bought that first laser, there were two cars in the driveway. A 1988 Pontiac Firebird with a 2.8/auto that a treebranch fell on, and a 1991 beat to all hell Laser RS with 5spd. The f-body was $400 and the DSM was $1800..a local junkyard had a wrecked T/A that would have been the perfect guts swap. Also, I was riding my bike (pedal) to work at the time and would ride around looking for cars when I rode past these. After much pleading, I was finnaly and firmly told, no I cannot have the Firebird and swap crap over. I was desperate for a car at this point. SO, I went back to look at the Laser. There it sat with 3 flat tires, all the lights were smashed out, smashed fender...warm beige paint :yuck: tan interior :yuck: lookin all dilapadated. It was stick, it ran....I could haggle.

I brought the laser home after filling the tires for $1100 (i still waaaaaaaay overpaid) Drove it to the junkyard..got some lights...and drove it home. The car shook so bad it was rediculous. I thought it just sucked and this is what a crappy car drives like. Albiet, it was quicker than the old truck of my fathers. The 3rd day of driving it I found that the waterpump was leaking...the 4th day, the oil filter SHOOK off the car. The only thing I had ever changed was plugs and an airfilter on a car. Life was about to change...

After unwrapping my new Haynes manual and freaking out on how hard it was to get to the waterpump....I started into what was to become the most addicting thing I have ever touched in my life. Much stress came when the balance shaft pulley would line up correctly arrow wise, but the weight was on the wrong side. Should I put the weight on the bottom like the Haynes says and let the screwdriver slide into the block like it did, or put it back as it was, lining up, but not allowing the screwdriver to go in. I chose my gut and went with the weight on the bottom and the driver sliding on in. I buttoned the car up over the next day or so....and WOW.

I had just turned a clunker into a Porsche! The motor was sooo smooth, the car just purred, and was an absolute ball to drive. I was hooked from then on. Over the next year or so, I fixed up the n/t to the point where it was a really nice car. The motor was spotless, I had learned to be a mechanic. I went off to college later that year in Detroit with my car at home. By thanksgiving it was appearant i NEEDED my car. Although something else came up on break I didnt need...boost in the form of ANOTHER laser, this time from the worst junkyard I knew of. What a perfect car for a motor swap! For $400 surely this was a steal. Once again, foiled by dad; I was not allowed to swap. BUT, I could get the car anyways. BOOST!!!! I HAD BOOST!!!! I could write pages on how I brought it back to life in the junkyard and took it for my first boosted drive nearly careening into smashed cars in the yard.

That November....my beige laser threw the balance belt (I hadn't known to change it with the T-Belt) It was out of commission. The new black laser was sitting in the drive, smashed 1/4, totally rotted out, just looking like it should be in a yard. I swapped batteries, put my good tires on it, and had only 2 weeks to sort it out over winter break. It was lightly modded from the previous (deceased) owner..but it was totally unroadworthy. Powersteering lines rotted out, NO brakes, nothing worked...but it ran..and man did it RUN! It drove just like a modded fwd would...spinning and tq steering everywhere. I drove it without failure till summer.

The entire summer I spent rebuilding this car. It was my pride and joy...hours and hours worked for money to get fenders...cut 1/4s off a car...buy wheels, tires....everything. I put new 1/4s on the car, new fenders, brakes, fitted the GST ground effects and wing, got trashed tsi wheels, polished the lips to a mirror and sprayed the inside gunmetal. The car was block sanded until it was perfect and it was shot with fresh black paint. It looked AWESOME!

As proud as I was, I quickly found looks can be decieving. It was ragged internally, and although I had removed the outside cancerous rust. I broke every bolt I touched. EVERYTHING on this car broke...i broke it all. Even my intercooler was rotted out at the neck. By the next year I was getting sick of it. It was smoking badly from valveseals...the turbo was shot...tranny was toast. My friend had bought a 5.0 Mustang...one of my previous dream cars..and I had found a new love. I wanted a 5.0...I had to have one..my laser couldnt touch it at the track on slicks.

Yeah...this is where I screwed up...I bought a ragged out modded 1987 Supra. Tried doing another 'rebuild it' trick. It was too far gone. I had put myself in a corner with school payment forcing the sale of either it or the Supra. I chose to sell the laser in hopes the supra would be mech sound and fun to drive. $1200 is what I got out of the Laser...fair...but JUST breaking even, despite the time and effort. The supra only lasted me a month once it was right...poor choice. Insanely fast, very, very short lived. I walked or found rides for the next 9 months. I didn't have enought $ for a car with school...no time to work...life sucked.

All that next summer I searched and searched for a clean 5.0 I could afford (3kish). I must have looked at 100 cars, drove about 5. Everything was ragged out crap. It was like you just couldnt get a decent one for the $. I was getting desperate again...my summer dwindling, I had to get a car soon. I reluctantly looked back on DSMs......i REALLY didnt want to, but that AWD...so mysterious and fabled on DSMtalk..I had to see what it was like. So i looked...with around the same results. I found many lasers and turned them down simply because I hated the way they look.

Then came the morning I housesat for my mom while the rest of the family was in Ocean City on vacation (yea work sucks). Maybe it was fate. The paper said '1991 Laser AWD..good tires, best offer.' Surely this was wrong..they dont make an AWD 91. I called on a hunch. The kid swpre it was AWD...I had to go look out of curiosity.

There it was...all beat to hell on curbed up 17s..a 92 style...but in reality, it was a 1991. It was stick...the 1/4s had no clear coat...light rust under spraypaint..the one wheel was black and covered in braked fliud and dirt. Not to mention like 8 degrees of negative camber and a detroyed tire. Paint was super faded and bad. Neon lights graced the undercarrige. It was dead stock with a K&N an the kid cut the muffler off and attached a cherry bomb glasspack via wire and a hoseclamp. The front C/Vs were trashed..the rear wheel bearing was so gone you could shake the wheel an inch in each direction. I didnt even want to drive it, but I figured I'd humour the kid.

The car didnt want to say running...as I let the clutch out, i heard horrid clacking and clunking..I was 'assured' this was the c/vs and bearing problems...then that stupid thing did what I hadnt felt in nearly 2 yrs....BOOST...it was so much smoother than my n/t (still have it...its been a trooper). He said someone offered him $500 for the car...It shifted awesome and the motor seemed healthy...i told him I'd give him $900...and here I am..

The CLEANEST Laser people have ever seen in their life. I cannot stress enough how much work and love and dreaming I put into this car. It has brought me joy on so many stressful nights at school...When I say I have gone over everything..I seriously mean EVERYTHING. This car made me appreciate how nice a laser can look. THIS CAR recieved all the wishes and mods I had dreamed of in the past. And it truely bugs me, that I am still dissapointed in how it performs. You can spend 9k in parts and if you dont buy huge stuff, the car will not go as fast as expected. Alot of money went into maintaining the car and getting it back to shape. I still receive compliments every now and then and get people gawking at all my hours of labor under the hood, the interior, under the car...I loved my laser once. But for the money I have invested over the past year, I wish I would have gotten a WS6 transam or a 5.0. Struggling with attaining parts, having to order and wait for things....the boring factor of awd. It is an amazing car, i know that just and afc and a logger can take a second off that time....but at heart, as much as I grew to love DSMs, I neglected the part of me that always wanted raw muscle. I wanted a tourque ladened monster that shook the ground.

I have a 4cyl instead. Against every whim I had when I started this journey. I will surely regret the sale if it really does happen. My life has been pretty hard lately...I've worked so hard in school...got out in 4yrs with many awards..I've never looked to drugs or alcohol as a way out, I refuse to touch it. For the life of me, I completely suck at women, the family is screwed up...my passion, my release, my freedom is my DSM. I can do a timing belt job in under an hour now instead of a week. I posses so much knowlege of cars its pathetic. However, I made myself a promise in 8th grade when I first saw a black WS6 ls1 trans am. If I were ever to graduate college in Industrial Design....and landed a real job, I was going to buy one. That time is now. And I'm torn between selling my DSM to get one...because with a move, and bills, there will not be $ for two toys.

Perhaps the fact the DSM is 'slow' to me and the potential of the LS1 is wracking my mind.....I love my DSM....I still hate Lasers..I was so mad I bought another one instead of a Talon or Eclipse..but now..

I have the CLEANEST Laser...and from a beat-ass $900 car. That is something I can be proud of.




Thank-you for making me write this... I hope it inspires another DSMer to keep his...I don't know what my outcome will be. I can only move forward.



-Tom




On May 30th, 2006; I made a mistake. I sold out on my baby.....

The DSM left my hands to reap the destruction of an 18yr old asshat. I thought I was happy...I got decent $ out of it despite my huge loss on the car. I purchased my Mustang....I loved my Mustang.


Well, November 28th, 2006 My car came back home. Did I give up on my stang? Hell no. I love it to death and it's the coolest car I've ever had. But I missed my DSM. YOU WILL ALWAYS COME BACK. Especially if you are a hardcore 1g guy.

I saw my wheels on a car on DSMtuners in the gallery, it was from the same area as my car was sold into.

I had to call.....I had to see what became of my dreams.....


Take this time for Intermission as we venture into the next post!

I arrived at the new owners house mid afternoon last Saturday; only to have my heart broken and spirits crushed....ruined and abused is too light a phrase to coin. My PRISTINE car is now subject to a salvage title?!!

Here are some pictures of my baby prior to sale......what fueled my DSM fire for so long..










surely a gorgeous super pampered car...

On to the next post!

It breaks my heart to post these pictures. So much love, hours of detail work.....blood, sweat, and tears....pissed away into juvenile neglect.

Bow your heads







It's like the car was thrown away....unwashed, uncared for...freshly dented up, SPRAYPAINTED?!! , RUSTED!?! with a SALVAGE TITLE?!!!?!!

Everything is trashed.....he only put like 4k miles on it?!

I am disgusted....utterly disgusted and ashamed to have let such a car go to be ruined.

I'm not going to sit here and bad mouth the owner.....but I can tell you he's a grade-A fuckup in my book:mad:


....ready for more?

Read on.....

These pictures make me want to tear up....knowing its home safe and sound. FOREVER!!

The car is....*gasp* going to a frame shop tomorrow to see if the kid is full of shit or not with his bullshit stories of 'why' it might be totalled......So much is destroyed, I think he curbed it and pitched an insurance claim on an older car.......who knows..

But check this out! Back in its garage, where it belongs; where it shall stay, and be reborn!!!! Screw 12s.....its 11s this time!!! A whole new look to follow!

I present these in great joy!






Thank you all for being here for my trials and tribulations.....I appreciate and love you all!!

I cannot wait to get this car sorted and back on it's feet!

Dream On!!!!! :rudolph: :rudolph:

:tree:

-Tom Hank

UPDATE!!!!

Its back on it's feet!

You can now eat out of the engine bay again;)

Added Dejon tool Blow through style intake, new K&N to replace the rubber banded ass intake from who knows where....retrimmed the nose. New clutch master cylinder, new brake master cylinder. Also got some Ingalls adjustable rear upper control arms along with some 17" Rota Subzeros courtesy of bigjdog84 :banana: Interior is spotless....still need to redo the headliner.

Anyhow; heres some new pics I snapped tonite after bleeding the brakes and tossing the new rollers on









lol I'm so panda....:o

So, as my rebuilding process continues.....there's been some new updates to the story....

story here: http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167156

Anyhow, got the engine bay 95% there, reshot the roof since the kid i sold it to had decided to bash it in :rolleyes: Redid the rotas how i wanted em in the first place, dressed the calipers. The whole car got wheeled and waxed inc all the windows/lights. Don't mind my ductaped decklid....havent got there yet to fix

Without further adue.....enjoy









.......:banana:

that's all for now....i hate driveway shots....but it was about to thunderstorm so i snapped a few an back in the garage....

ill get cool ones this week

:tree:

ok...so that was long as fuck.


Hope you enjoyed

good to see that car is back in good hands. its a shame that the front bumper got cut like that. any chance of you putting a new one on?

I sold it again....

Bought a trans am

Well written but after all that you re-sold her?! lol, oh dear.

I guess this will make me think twice if I ever consider selling my 240....

plans now?

Well, the kid shitted it up so much, it just wasn't the same.

Plans?

Find clean AWD shell.
Swap my current tirespinning to 70+ GST crap
Add big turbo+ fuel+ dsmlink or maybe another VPC setup

Idk...it's all relevant. It's just gonna be a winter DD anyhow.

Ha, that story is pretty is epic. Great read the first time at dsmtalk, still entertaining to read it again!

i hate you tom
you have to chang you name to gsx beast
i almost cried reading that
i miss your laser

Yeah....sometimes I hate myself a little cause of it too

i dont hat you just the the choice you made but as you know ive made worse

You did a good job cleaning it up (both times, lol) It definetaly is the cleanest around. But I'm still confused as to why you're more serious with your Mustang than your T/A. ???

it looked good on the subzeros. for some reason i like how first gens look. i wouldnt mind having one but all the horror stories i have heard about them turn me away.

Crx- There's really no horror stories other than people who don't do the regular maintenence. Other than a few trivial things, these have been my daily drivers for years. Just don't skimp on timing belts, and don't go crankin up the boost without going over stuff and making sure everything is functioning well.


Evil- Well, I guess the mustang got the most attention for a few reasons. Mild ignorance might be one of them At the time, I had walked out on a job where I made ALOT of money over management reasons. I had just got done dumping too much $ towards that white car you see above.

I wanted to get into domestics. I wanted either a 5.0 or a Trans Am. I however didn't have alot saved up and didn't want to take out a loan. I suppose what happened is that I didn't quite pen things out enough and did a little too much assuming. I figured I'd have an honest 10k in a car. I figured 10k could get me a stock ws6 fbody, OR I could put 10k into a stang, and figuritively build it to about the same power levels plus a little extra, and then have all new drivetrain/suspension etc.

Well, it seemed the best option for me was to purchase the 5.0, as I could get it right away and enjoy it. Ls1's seemed a bit out of reach without a loan, I couldn't see consistant enough #s out of them at the track from a bystanders point of view, and I was under the impression that LT1s were dog-ass slow. This is because the only ones I was around were automatics....and well, they ARE dogs.

Anyhow, I ended up buying my mustang from some kid in boarman for $2300. It was a good running, half decent bodied car, and obviously at a good price. SO, I sold my laser, and put the $ from it towards mods. To be honest, my car had nothing done to it forever while I accumuled a HUGE pile of parts. I was still inbetween 'real ' jobs so I was taking it slow.
I didn't want to put stuff on, then have to redo it all, so I waited.

Fast forward about 6 mos and I was back at my old good paying job. This is when things snowballed. I had $ again, and I went to town. Decided to do the exterior up how I wanted and do wheels and stuff. Bought my heads and a few other supporting things. At this time I realized I under budgeted. But, what can you do but finish it.

I buttoned the car back up late this fall. It's pretty much 'done' sans the gears...it has 2:73s in it still and I HATE HATE HATE them. Need to get my 3:73s installed here. The car made decent power, tuned at Powerhouse Automotive LLC. A stock 5.0 will dyno @ 160rwhp on thier mustang dyno. My car made 296rwhp/315rwtq. This would equate to about 320rwhp/340tq on a DynoJet.

The car should be good for mid 12s. The things I like are that the car looks AMAZING. Even if you don't like Mustangs, you can't deny it's not a gorgeous car. I've yet to see many that rival it IMO. I also enjoy the simplicity of the car/ease to work on. Another plus is if I break something, it is much easier and cheaper to replace, and I can do it all very easily in a weekend. There's no arguement to be made on an 8.8 vs a 10bolt

I purchased the T/A like 2 years later, after re-selling the laser. It was meant only to be a nice, reasonably quick daily driver. I didn't want to throw for an LS1 as I already have one expensive toy. I had never even driven a 4th gen previosly. Well. I'm kinda mad, cause I wish I'd have built the cars the other way around, and started with an LS1. I found I enjoyed the T/A tremendously and really love t-tops. I also like the driving position alot better (some people hate it, some love it). Other than that, the T/A will run CIRCLES around a stock or even bolt on stang. I could've got 13s all day on slicks, were the mustang couldn't even break 90mph in the 1/4 stock....with me driving the HELL out of it to go 14.9

I ended up tallying ALL my reciepts and adding for any ancillary cost building my mustang. I ended up having a tad over 14k into it.

At this point, I WOULD NOT BUILD IT AGAIN. I would much rather have gotten a 10k f-body and had 4k in mods. I'd be over 420rwhp and have all my looks/wants. Unfortunately I'm a little over my head on the stang and I'd loose my ass getting out. I also can't deny its strong points, and it's 100% payed for. Girls also seem to like it alot, though I'm currently off the market lol.

I will see this spring if I will be offing it or keeping it depending on how it does at the track. If it disgusts me, I will revert to my backup plan. Which is LS1 + cam/bolt ons + Procharger. I was also entertaining the idea of liquidating and picking up a c5 z06.

I suppose my only 'drawback' is I want a house next year. So, I'll play it by ear. I don't really race ever anymore and it shouldn't even matter. The stang should be able to go 11s on vapor anyhow.

So, there's your answer.

good detailed answer, almost make me want an F-body for a DD

Wow, you made some...interesting points. Now I'm going to cover your last post in different sections and i'm going to be my very opinionated self but I'm going to only reveal facts and persoanl experiences, so don't take offense to anything I'm about to say. Here goes..

The only advantages of having a Mustang over a Trans Am/Camaro is the normal trunk, the rear seat room and the factory 8.8 rear axle. Thats it. And if you prefer the more upright driving position, which you said you didn't and neither do I.

Though I've never seen any "before" shots of your car, $2300 seems like a very fair price, but you never said how much $$ you had to purchase a car to begin with. You could've purchased a very clean '93-'95 T/A or (especially)a Z28 with reasonable mileage for as little as $4k.

LS1 f-bodys are VERY consistant in terms of 1/4 mile times with the right driver. Especially automatic versions. I used to drag race my car a lot when I first bought it. It ran as quick as a 13.2 from the factory and it ran as bad as a 13.4. Thats it. Depending on the air that day, it would run the exact same time all day, even down to the hundreth of a second on some outings. As far as the LT1 cars are concerned, calling an automatic version a dog is hardly the truth at all. My brothers 165k mile '94 Formula with a slipping auto trans and factory 3.23 gears ran 14.0-14.2 at Thompson. His only mods were plugs/wires, slp ram air hood/airbox and a catback. Thats it. He has since rebuilt his transmission and has since been beating up on the new Mustang GT's and GTO's. He's wooped a shitload of modified '01-'04 GT's too. Stock LT1's, even TIRED ones will put down as little as 210-220hp at the wheels and good running examples will be in the 240-250rwhp range. Obliterating a 5 Liter Mustangs 160rwhp.

Being a bystander at a track and passing judgement on other peoples driving as the way a car actually performs is more than a little unfair on your part. If that were the way to do things, then new GTO's only run 15s, '03 Cobras run high 14s and LT1 Camaros run 16s. I've also seen modified SRT4's run high 15s too. Again, I realize its the driver not the car and so I don't make assumptions based on that. Sometimes the car's just have tuning issues or is experiencing some kind of mechanical problems and the owner is too ignorant to stop racing it and figure out what's wrong.

But i understand your financial situation. The up and down game. I'm on again, off again (currently off) at GM, where I make $26/hour. You can never count on anything, especially in this area.


Which brings me back to your Mustang. It is a very clean example and I have to give you props on how you have the gift on bringing the shine back out of tired old cars, but aside from its wheels, your Musatng isn't exactly unique either. The "updated" '96-'98 tailight mod for the '94-'95 was already played out in the early '00s. Every Mustang owner I know puts Cobra badges on thier GT's and in some cases, their V6 version. Hell, I knew a kid who put them on his '94 T-Bird for Christ sakes. Most everybody I know who has that body style has that hood too. Or wants it. Then there's the Cobra front bumper cover.. well, you get the idea... As far as running mid 12s with 320rwhp probably won't happen either. Unless you took out the a/c, radio, etc for some weight saving and are running full slicks, even then it's doubtful. I'd say maybe low 13s and if you're incredibly lucky and God loves you that day, very high 12s.

Not to sound like a broken record, but when I was 21 I had a brand new 2002 WS6 and a 2000 Mustang GT vert. My GT was "triple white" with a couple of small bolt ons and it had the Classic Concepts "styling bar" with the high mounted brake light in it. It was the only Mustang I ever liked, not because it was mine, but just the way it looked. I bought it to replace my first T/A, a '99 NON-WS6 car in which I totaled. I had import guys and die-hard Chevy guys alike tell me how nice they thought my 'Stang was, how it was one of the best looking/sounding ones around, etc. Girls liked it too, but in all honesty, the Trans Am was always the more popular car with everyone (especially the chicks) and it wasn't long after I bought my T/A that my Mustang become my "second car" or the car I'd let my friends drive. Not because of its popularity, or it's HUGE difference in power over the GT, but because of it always being my favorite and the one I wanted to begin with. Since then I've gotten rid of my GT and I honestly don't even miss it. But if you were to look at both cars now, the Mustang looks more dated and the T/A STILL gets the response it got 6 years ago. Even with the chicks. A lot of people forget that the bodystyle itself dates back to '93 and the front end of the LS1 cars are now officially 10 years old. I guess it has what you call timeless styling.

Well, I guess I'll try to reply on each point.

As for car $, I had somewhere around 4200 if I remember correctly. I was actually VERY inbetween the stang and the lt1 cars. Even today when I bought mine though, 4k was a stretch, and not getting you a nice car, not a 6spd.

I'm going to continue my debate on auto Lt1's being dogs . They CAN run decent, and especially with a stall, and I'm quite aware to the reasons WHY people decide to make auto's drag cars. However, the few lt1s I, in MY experience was around, the auto cars never made it out of the 15s, sans my one friends, who was modded. It barely trapped over my mustang stock too. I continue to thrash auto ones on the street, and have YET to see a good running one myself. The only thing I like is that they come out alot easier where I tend to spin.

I agree that lt1s put down in the 220-230 range, however the stang #s I was referencing were from THAT dyno. High 180s, low 190s seem closer to the norm. Not saying all are or aren't but just being fare.

Also, my points on watching other cars, I did say I was assuming a bit. You can't sit here and tell me you've never done the same, as I've opened a few peoples eyes in my DSM, whereas most I see at the track I guess to run high 14s. Experience is experience. You take what info you can get and go from there. Also, not all cars run the same if you havent noticed.

Thanks for the compliments on the stang. As for unique, it is. I realize you can only do SO much to stand out, but you're full of it to look past it as 'played out'. The color is VERY unique in that they only produced about 2000 in that color, in that year only. The cobra nose, 'R' hood is midly common, the scoops def arent. I see 4.6 tail treatment every now and then but not alot. I also satin blacked them. The wheels I have NO ONE had when I got them. I purchased them through work, and were on the car near 6mos before I even saw them on another. Still dont see many in deep dish or silver. Obviosuly the cobra badges complete the package.

I'm glad you had what you did at your age, I was busy bustng my ass for 4 years to better myself and not have to have a 'factory job' working on some line for my $. I scraped and saved. Everything I own is payed for cash out of MY pocket. I can do as I please now if I want. If I want a new vette, I can go get one. I would much rather have a house at this point, and am trying to have about 20k CASH in my pocket this years end to do so. What I don't like to hear is 'this is so played out and I had this so and so years ago'

I went to HS with a kid that bought a black WS6 new, with settlement $. I don't live MY life for anyone else but ME. Understand? I don't care what bob had down the street 10 yrs ago if I like it. I enjoy cars that are built not bought.

I don't mean to come off as a dick, but you are very condicending with your opinions to people. I take things for what they are, let people do thier thing. I mean you couldnt PAY me to buy an automatic f-body OR mustang for that matter. Theres no fun in holding a wheel straight and hitting a pedal. I like to get out on open track events and auto-x.

I'm just saying, I have my reasoning. I can do alot of things different, with either car. The f-body most certainly isn't without fault. It's not the end all performance car. They just make a nice platform. Arguementively, they are much more compact, harder to work on, much more expensive. I do not like the selective manufacturing process of the genIII smallblock and all the piston slap issues. Even my brothers 99 makes noise when very cold. The 10 bolts are a joke, and its $1500 minimum to fix that right. The t-56 is a definate plus, along with the added cubes. A simple stroker can level most of that field, but most of the power of the ls1 cars in in the head/intake design.

In all, I'm just trying to be very openminded and honest. If I wanted to really go fast, I'd continue with DSMs or build a power added carbed chevy. Everything is a $ game. It costs even more to go fast reliabley while looking good.

I've edited my previous post on what your car will probably run..

RSbeast wrote:I'm going to continue my debate on auto Lt1's being dogs . They CAN run decent, and especially with a stall, and I'm quite aware to the reasons WHY people decide to make auto's drag cars. However, the few lt1s I, in MY experience was around, the auto cars never made it out of the 15s, sans my one friends, who was modded. It barely trapped over my mustang stock too. I continue to thrash auto ones on the street, and have YET to see a good running one myself. The only thing I like is that they come out alot easier where I tend to spin.

Well I guess I'll have to set you up with some people that own them, actually know how to drive them and keep them running in perfect form then. LT1's are notorious for their Optispark (aka Opticrap) distributor and they have a tendancy to reduce power from said LT1. I helped replace the one in my brothers car twice. Not fun..

RSbeast wrote:Also, my points on watching other cars, I did say I was assuming a bit. You can't sit here and tell me you've never done the same..

No I haven't, actually. I knew (and know) what factory turbo cars are capable of, since I grew up around a couple of GN's and a T-Type when I was a kid. Plus I like to research other types of cars on my spare time. (it's better to know your enemy than to be ignorant ) In that first summer I started drag racing, (2002) I met John Rodriguez (J-Rod) when he had his 1st DSM he ever owned. That car was pretty quick. That same summer I had a 2g bolt on awd Talon run door handle to door handle with me all the way down the track. We both clicked off a 13.3.

RSbeast wrote:Thanks for the compliments on the stang. As for unique, it is. I realize you can only do SO much to stand out, but you're full of it to look past it as 'played out'. The color is VERY unique in that they only produced about 2000 in that color, in that year only. The cobra nose, 'R' hood is midly common, the scoops def arent. I see 4.6 tail treatment every now and then but not alot. I also satin blacked them. The wheels I have NO ONE had when I got them. I purchased them through work, and were on the car near 6mos before I even saw them on another. Still dont see many in deep dish or silver. Obviosuly the cobra badges complete the package.

Like I said, the only thing thats really unique about your car is its wheels. The color is..red. May be rare or unique for that year, but no one else outside the Mustang world would know, or care about that. Everything else you stuck up for has been done many, many, many times over. I have old back issues of MM&FF you can have. You'll see all that stuff all over the place.

RSbeast wrote:Im glad you had what you did at your age, I was busy bustng my ass for 4 years to better myself and not have to have a 'factory job' working on some line for my $. I scraped and saved. Everything I own is payed for cash out of MY pocket. I can do as I please now if I want. If I want a new vette, I can go get one. I would much rather have a house at this point, and am trying to have about 20k CASH in my pocket this years end to do so. What I don't like to hear is 'this is so played out and I had this so and so years ago'

I went to HS with a kid that bought a black WS6 new, with settlement $. I don't live MY life for anyone else but ME. Understand? I don't care what bob had down the street 10 yrs ago if I like it. I enjoy cars that are built not bought.

And busting my ass in a factory is easy?? Sorry, but school never was my thing, and if I ever went to college I probably never would've finished anyway because I despise classrooms and school work in general. Plus I got hungry for $$ and just wanted to get to work when I was young. No one ever bought me a car. No one ever co-signed for me. Hell, my dad never knew I was buying a car until he saw it sitting in the driveway. The only one he even knew I was buying was my WS6 and he still didnt see it until he came home from work and it was in the driveway. And I wasn't trying to put your car down, but I was just telling you the truth. Just because there isn't an overabundance of them just like it in Bman or A-town, they're out there and there are a lot of them...

RSbeast wrote:I mean you couldnt PAY me to buy an automatic f-body OR mustang for that matter. Theres no fun in holding a wheel straight and hitting a pedal. I like to get out on open track events and auto-x.

Which is something I'm interested in too. Which isn't exactly just holding the wheel straight. As far as straight line acceleration, there really isn't a difference from the LS1 auto to LS1 M6 cars. The M6 cars tend to have a higher trap speed but they usually pull the same times. There are people who auto-x their automatic f-cars too and they still do very well with them from what I've heard/read.

RSbeast wrote:I'm just saying, I have my reasoning. I can do alot of things different, with either car. The f-body most certainly isn't without fault. It's not the end all performance car. They just make a nice platform. Arguementively, they are much more compact, harder to work on, much more expensive. I do not like the selective manufacturing process of the genIII smallblock and all the piston slap issues. Even my brothers 99 makes noise when very cold. The 10 bolts are a joke, and its $1500 minimum to fix that right. The t-56 is a definate plus, along with the added cubes. A simple stroker can level most of that field, but most of the power of the ls1 cars in in the head/intake design.

And the people who claim the f-body is the greatest car of all time are ignorant, I agree. I hated those people years ago. The platform is great, they should've added subframe connectors, though. They're a pain to work on, the T-56 is good, but could've used the stronger Viper spec shift forks from the factory. The piston slap issue is common on the LS1's, not ALL of them have it, but some did. Mine did before I re-did my car, but it was also the greatest running stock T/A around here too. So draw your own conclusion from that one. The 10 bolts can go either way. They're tempremental like women. I've seen people running high 12s break them and I've seen people go 10s with them. Just depends on how often and how hard you beat on them I guess. Loaded up 12 bolts are about $2k (with all of the abs sensors and stuff included), or you could beef up your 10 bolt with stronger axles, dif cover, etc.

You two are cranking out tons of info about your cars lol. Good deal for sure!

Personally I think it comes down to what the owner actually "likes" and not what everything else thinks is cool and trendy. Those are the true car enthusiasts, not wannabes who drive something to "fit in". We all have reasons we pick our cars, some regret some don't. Sometimes we end up falling into a car and really loving it unexpectedly.

I do agree in my choices on some items I try to be different and unique. I'd rather do something that hasn't been done 100000x times. But sooner or later someone else gets the same idea and of course it blows up. Its just how the car would is, and the world in general.

A fun car to me is something ridiculously fast, that I can pound the shit out of, slam gears and grab hard corners in. Oh yeah it has to sound mean as well.


Oh yeah, cars cost a crazy amount to seriously build. The start up costs for the car and a few mods sure not too bad. This is aside from collecting like high end yachts is one of the most expensive hobbies out there. It comes with the love every time you fire something up you built with your own hands.

See now, here's what I don't get.

You're practically openly bashing my mustang as cookie cutter and everyone has one this and that.

You have a red fobody with the same black z06 wheels...the same ones with goofy offset so they sit in too far in the rear. I can find like 30 of you with the EXACT same car on ls1tech in 10 min. As for the 'low 13s' with 320rwhp is just showing blanant ignorance and arrogance.

There's PLENTY of full wieght, fuck even vert cars deep in the 12s with those #s or less.

You bring $ into this, but why?

Please dude.

You really need to tell me you make $26hr?
Looks like your parents must have worked at GM too.....wonder why youre out of work when unskilled laborors make $26hr.

I just dont freaking get it man. It's like shit is only cool when its yours.
Then you get into how badass autos are at auto-x or whatever. Lol...it's too classic.

I'm glad you have your MVoutlaws forum but you and a few others over there need to get off your high horse. It's like people get ripped on for having a mustang...a cookie cutter mustang.

Whereas everyone has THE SAME CAR, with the same freakin mods list of like 5 things. Then I can get into this 'self proclaimed legend' shit with Gary.

Please. Go save a life or something if you want that title. The only thing I have seen is biased bashing and a wrecked auto f-body from some kid who got away lucky driving drunk.

Rb25Cory wrote:You two are cranking out tons of info about your cars lol. Good deal for sure!

Personally I think it comes down to what the owner actually "likes" and not what everything else thinks is cool and trendy. Those are the true car enthusiasts, not wannabes who drive something to "fit in". We all have reasons we pick our cars, some regret some don't. Sometimes we end up falling into a car and really loving it unexpectedly.

I do agree in my choices on some items I try to be different and unique. I'd rather do something that hasn't been done 100000x times. But sooner or later someone else gets the same idea and of course it blows up. Its just how the car would is, and the world in general.

A fun car to me is something ridiculously fast, that I can pound the shit out of, slam gears and grab hard corners in. Oh yeah it has to sound mean as well.


Oh yeah, cars cost a crazy amount to seriously build. The start up costs for the car and a few mods sure not too bad. This is aside from collecting like high end yachts is one of the most expensive hobbies out there. It comes with the love every time you fire something up you built with your own hands.

I agree.

RSbeast wrote:See now, here's what I don't get.

You're practically openly bashing my mustang as cookie cutter and everyone has one this and that.

Aside form your wheels (which I like) it is cookie cutter. I complimented you on how its presented, don't know what more you want from me on that subject. But to say no one has thought of painting thier tail light bezels black is hilarious. Saleens of the era had their bezels black like that. And 8 million people have copied them since.. Cobra front bumper cover (yawn) Cobra R hood (yawn) Cobra brake cooling vents (yawn) and Cobra emblems (yawn, oh look, there's a Focus sitting right next to it with Cobra emblems too) All that detail and you forgot to change your Mustang GT rear bumper cover.. oops. So what's sooo special about it other than the unique shade of red thats its in?

RSbeast wrote:You have a red fobody with the same black z06 wheels...the same ones with goofy offset so they sit in too far in the rear. I can find like 30 of you with the EXACT same car on ls1tech in 10 min. As for the 'low 13s' with 320rwhp is just showing blanant ignorance and arrogance.

I have a red Trans Am that I bought before I hung around with the car crowd in the area. A car that whenever I DID see a WS6, it was always black, silver or pewter and occasionally navy blue. I used to socialize in the Kent/Akron area prior to that and I rarely ever even saw one that way. Again, when I did start showing up in Boardman no one had one. My wheels are 17x11 in the rear, so yeah, with 315mm wide tires they'll stick out a little in the back, which I have yet to hear anyone put them down, just the contrary, actually.They're not Z06 wheels, they're black powdercoated 1st gen ZR1's or '96 Corvette GS wheels, whichever you prefer. They don't have the tacky Corvette emblem centercap like most people overlook on theirs, but they have the '98-'02 Firebird phoenix emblem in the same shade of red as my car. I bought these wheels 4 years ago (back when no one had black wheels on their cars around here on ANYTHING) and I'm in the middle of ordering a different style of wheel that NO ONE has for their car now. They're not black and they're not chrome. Thats all I'm saying about that... And 320rwhp in a full weight (other than hood) SN95 Mustang won't get you solid mid 12s, sorry. Might be closer to high 12s, but again, you would be lucky to get that. But either way, good luck!

RSbeast wrote:There's PLENTY of full wieght, fuck even vert cars deep in the 12s with those #s or less.

You bring $ into this, but why?

Please dude.

You really need to tell me you make $26hr?
Looks like your parents must have worked at GM too.....wonder why youre out of work when unskilled laborors make $26hr.

I just dont freaking get it man. It's like shit is only cool when its yours.
Then you get into how badass autos are at auto-x or whatever. Lol...it's too classic.

I'm glad you have your MVoutlaws forum but you and a few others over there need to get off your high horse. It's like people get ripped on for having a mustang...a cookie cutter mustang.

Whereas everyone has THE SAME CAR, with the same freakin mods list of like 5 things. Then I can get into this 'self proclaimed legend' shit with Gary.

Please. Go save a life or something if you want that title. The only thing I have seen is biased bashing and a wrecked auto f-body from some kid who got away lucky driving drunk.

The above is just mindless jibber jabber..

Yes my dad works there. He makes more than that. My uncles work there too in skilled trades. They make more than that too. Whats your point?

I "brought money into this" because you originally brought up the fact that "you had a VERY good paying job" but you left, etc.. I was just trying to share common ground.

In case you havn't looked at our members list, not everyone in our club has an fbody. And they all have different mods. I think Gary has a bit more than 5 done to his car. I sure as hell do too.

Take whatever beef you have with Gary up with Gary.

hey yo, im a legend... it has already been proven, i dont know u so apparently you've heard of me. bring it with ur junk stang or pos lazer if u wana talk shit! thats why i dont even look at forums anymore... too many haters yo! until then congradulation on making ur lazer look cute and selling it, step up your game and come correct son lol (and leave my name out of your mouth until then)

RSbeast wrote:Whereas everyone has THE SAME CAR, with the same freakin mods list of like 5 things. Then I can get into this 'self proclaimed legend' shit with Gary.

Ahhhhh no more "son"!!!!!!!! Hi Gary.

SVT THIS wrote:hey yo, im a legend... it has already been proven, i dont know u so apparently you've heard of me. bring it with ur junk stang or pos lazer if u wana talk shit! thats why i dont even look at forums anymore... too many haters yo! until then congradulation on making ur lazer look cute and selling it, step up your game and come correct son lol (and leave my name out of your mouth until then)

this sorta made me lol