Take back the keys!

RSbeast wrote:Plugs won't matter so much at idle as under boost, unless they are hella fouled.

Good point on Nick, as you still have ignition base timing along with valvetrain timing. You will need to ground the signal to the ECM and set the CAS to 5 degrees BTDC. Anything more or less and the ECU starts acting all whacked out.

woah emphasize on this a little more please

Running925 wrote:make sure your plugs are gapped properly

yes checked them myself when i took them out of the package

92tegGP wrote:

RSbeast wrote:Plugs won't matter so much at idle as under boost, unless they are hella fouled.

Good point on Nick, as you still have ignition base timing along with valvetrain timing. You will need to ground the signal to the ECM and set the CAS to 5 degrees BTDC. Anything more or less and the ECU starts acting all whacked out.

woah emphasize on this a little more please

Theres your timing belt timing, then your ignition timing. Holy shit, now that I think about it, you don't even have a damn timing cover, so you can't check and see the base timing right now. You need to get a timing light and actually set the ignition timing, by using the light and adjusting the CAS. Like so...

http://www.plymouthlaser.com/timin.htm

BUT, you don't have a lower timing cover on. So you won't be able to tell what timing you are set at. (the lower cover has markings to tell timing)

I think theres a way to do it with a logger though. Tom? I might need to dig this up on tooners

And you're running dsmlink right? You should be able to pull up your current timing in dsmlink. I *THINK* you can just turn your cas till it reads 5* timing on link

Nick Serra wrote:And you're running dsmlink right? You should be able to pull up your current timing in dsmlink. I *THINK* you can just turn your cas till it reads 5* timing on link

software can only tell u your ignition timing

your mechanical valve timing is in no way sent to the computer. That is also why you mush sync your software with the mechanical timing before tuning can happen. Otherwise, your adjustments have no real meaning!

Running925 wrote:

Nick Serra wrote:And you're running dsmlink right? You should be able to pull up your current timing in dsmlink. I *THINK* you can just turn your cas till it reads 5* timing on link

software can only tell u your ignition timing

your mechanical valve timing is in no way sent to the computer. That is also why you mush sync your software with the mechanical timing before tuning can happen. Otherwise, your adjustments have no real meaning!

Well his valvetrain timing is correct, he said he checked that. Thats the easy one to check. He just needs to set his ignition timing now.

Nick Serra wrote:

Running925 wrote:

Nick Serra wrote:And you're running dsmlink right? You should be able to pull up your current timing in dsmlink. I *THINK* you can just turn your cas till it reads 5* timing on link

software can only tell u your ignition timing

your mechanical valve timing is in no way sent to the computer. That is also why you mush sync your software with the mechanical timing before tuning can happen. Otherwise, your adjustments have no real meaning!

Well his valvetrain timing is correct, he said he checked that. Thats the easy one to check. He just needs to set his ignition timing now.

yes, and it needs to be sync'd with the software.

If the timing mark for that motor is on the lower cover and it's missing, it will be unable to be matched up to the ems.

Tony if these cars are a tooth off on the cams they have a REALLY hard miss. And since the CAS is phased directly off the intake camshaft, there needs no other synching than to actually have the valve timing correct obviously not with the crank off either unless u like bent shit as the early DSMs do not use a crank sensor.

That said though, if the cam is off, I doubt it would show correct timing even through the ecm as it would force the CAS to fire at a different trigger point.

You need to make damn sure the actual component timing is correct. You then run a jumper to the unused plug off the firewall as illustrated, and hook up an inductive light and phase the CAS to 5 degrees BTDC with the car idling at 750rpm. If you have an idle issue, address that first if you can. A logger should show you where your timing is at I would think.

RSbeast wrote:Tony if these cars are a tooth off on the cams they have a REALLY hard miss. And since the CAS is phased directly off the intake camshaft, there needs no other synching than to actually have the valve timing correct obviously not with the crank off either unless u like bent shit as the early DSMs do not use a crank sensor.

That said though, if the cam is off, I doubt it would show correct timing even through the ecm as it would force the CAS to fire at a different trigger point.

You need to make damn sure the actual component timing is correct. You then run a jumper to the unused plug off the firewall as illustrated, and hook up an inductive light and phase the CAS to 5 degrees BTDC with the car idling at 750rpm. If you have an idle issue, address that first if you can. A logger should show you where your timing is at I would think.

I agree that the mechanical end of things NEED to be set correctly.

All that i'm stating is that electronicly, his ignition map has set values of timing that area to be fired upon. The timing light needs to be used to verify that the car is actually firing when the software is telling it to fire.

Remember, this car isn't running on a stock map anymore, it should still be sitting at factory ignition settings (for idle) in the aftermarket map but thats not always the case.

no matter what the make/model/ems

Gotcha. I think I thought you were arguing a different point actually with signal communication.

I agree 110% on the timing light

RSbeast wrote:Gotcha. I think I thought you were arguing a different point actually with signal communication.

I agree 110% on the timing light

tupid intarwebz

i gots a timing light if u need one

POS!

92tegGP wrote:POS!

YEAAAAA You tell it!

So this really isn't up and running yet? IS there a mechanical issue or just the tune?

At worst cough up the coin and have it tuned....DSMs aren't THAT hard

Well it was running like a champ.

This was like 2 months ago. Me and one of my friends were out cruising around and i pulled out of a gas station pretty hard. Then it started smoking like a whore. Im thinking headgasket (Fail-pro) So I replaced the head gasket to find it still smoking. Hmm so I pull my downpipe and find find oil coming out of my turbo im like sweet so i buy a brand new one. like a retard i put it on with a small kink in the return line so it blows the seals almost instantly. had it rebuilt. installed it and bam still smoking. At this point im like wtf so I replaced my valve seals. Still smoking. So im thinking maybe there is still oil/ water in my ic and ic piping from when i originally cleaned it out after the turbo incodent. Checked, nothing bone dry and clean. Now im thinking wtf maybe im still burning out oil in my exhaust. So i continue to drive it (still running awesome). Finally after replacing/ checking everything i think of im convinced One of my oil rings on a piston was damaged so this weekend i pull my motor for like the 1,000th time.

When i disassembled it thinking im going to find a broken ring i find 4 broken pistons!! wooo awsome! all 4 cyl had broken ringlands, i read and the thing that causes this is a) detonation b) to much boost. Well my car isnt tuned great but it doesnt lean out and its not running stupid rich or anything so im thinking that when i pulled out of that gas station that day i hit about 17-18 lbs and thats what did it.

Oh well shit happens, new stuffs on the way i should have it back together by next week and be ready to break some more.

wow. who tuned it?

CruxSucks wrote:wow. who tuned it?

it hasnt been all out tuned yet, things have been coming up and money has to go elsewhere.
But when your order dsmlink you have to give them a complete list of everything that is done to your car and they give the best possible base tune they can give you already burned on the chip and once you install it your "ok" to drive, i went through and messed with some of the things though to get a little more fuel here and there though because it would lean out a little at first and i had it running pretty good without being "professionaly" tuned

Christ. Get a wideband and turn down the boost

You know there's more that goes into detonation than just a/f ratios.... timing, air temps, physical engine timing (belt)... ect ect ect. If its mechanically together straight, let a known, reputable tuner/shop handle the ECU end before taking it down the road and beating it.

Nick Serra wrote:Christ. Get a wideband and turn down the boost

i have one, and did as low as it goes

17-18psi on a big turbo with an unknown tune?! Come on man, you're asking for trouble. You wouldv'e saved $ and headaches just taking it to get setup. We live within an hour or so of some of the best DSM places in the whole fucking country....there's no real excuse for multiple failures.

I hope you get it sorted an all but damn. I go easy on overfueled 14b cars the first few times out. I refused to beat on my old laser till I had a logger and wideband on it. Just go easy on the damn thing until it's right unless you REALLY like spending $ and dealing with broke shit.

yuckk.. sounds like a big mess.

Got this whore tuned today. Tuning session went great besides blowing a coupler and me burning my hand on my turbo but shit happens.

My tuner said I'm right around 350whp (going from his expereince and looking at link #'s) and this is with a boost leak.

He said to get this leak fixed and hes going to retune it and said we should hit 400 no problem.

Its pulling stupid hard, raced my friends golf Vr6, nothing special or anything but from a 3rd and partial 4th i pulled a good 8-10 cars on him.

Still got some bugs but I aint scurrred

u should call out some unnamed local clowns that drive lt1 and ls1's... id love to see u pwn them.. there is a new thread for calling ppl out

DO ITTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol i plan on it

ohh its on, ima start the shit talking now.

Sweet! Who tuned it?

RSbeast wrote:Sweet! Who tuned it?

a guy named joe from akron, hes got a 91 with a stroker.. he said he knows your from dsmtalk